Dr Ali Abdaal is the world’s most followed productivity expert and author of Feel-Good Productivity, the brand new book that reveals why the secret to productivity isn’t discipline, it’s joy. In his podcast, Deep Dive, Ali sits down with inspiring creators, thinkers, entrepreneurs and high performers to help listeners build lives that they love.
Ali’s cheerful style, positive approach, and well-researched content have made him a trusted voice when it comes to productivity. The internet means that we have access to more knowledge and information than ever before - but it can also be overwhelming. So, Ali and his expert guests focus on simple, scientifically proven, and actionable steps you can take to make real changes in your life.
Ali’s a firm believer that happiness isn’t the result of success - in fact, happiness is the key to success in the first place. Ali made this discovery while working as a doctor in a chaotic hospital ward. In the past, hard work had been the answer to every obstacle in his life. But no amount of hard work was going to combat panic and burnout.
So, Ali dedicated himself to figuring out a new approach to productivity - one that focuses on enjoying the journey and working towards truly meaningful goals. Deep Dive, with its authentic and engaging conversations, will give you all the insights you need to do just that.
Gonna be a lawyer. That was, like, the plan. Similar to, obviously, with med school, I come from an Indian background, so it was, like, either a doctor or lawyer or engineer. And I chose law because I had watched every episode of Law and Order and Suits, and I thought that that was what being a lawyer was about. And then come I graduate from college, and and just like the MCATs in law school, you have to take the LSAT. It's the number one determinant of where you go to law school, and that's the number one determinant of, like, how much money you make in your whole life. So I decided to take a year off of college to study for the LSAT and then take the test and go to law school. But about 5 days after I graduated, my dad was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. Oh, shit. He's in remission now, so I'm super grateful. But I ended up having to, like, stop what I was doing, moved in with him in Atlanta, and then spent the next year doing chemo and radiation while I studied for the LSATs. And it was kinda just during this whole experience, I realized, like, actually up until that point, which I was 23 years old, I had never actually spoken to a lawyer about going to law school. Everybody that was telling me to go to law school were all my family members, and none of them were lawyers. And, of course, they just wanted the best thing for me. They wanted me to get a safe job. And so I ended up as I was nearing the LSAT, I decided to talk to a few lawyers, and all of them were like, do not be a lawyer. Every single one of them was like, absolutely no. It's like a different world now than it was back then. And so I ended up taking the LSAT because I had pretty much practiced my whole life for it, scored in the top 13 percent percentile. So I did well, got in my my dream schools, but ultimately came downstairs one day and told my dad I wasn't going to law school, which that kinda created a little bit of rift in our relationship. Right? Because he felt like I was throwing my life away. Then I started working at an Italian restaurant. You know? So I went from, like, going to top 10 law school in the nation to literally working at this Italian restaurant down the street while I figured myself out. And then long story short, bought an online course, that's why I'm so I'm a big fan of online courses. It was Tai Lopez's SMMA course. No. The original one. Yeah. So it was like put the rest of my money on a credit card for that. You were one of those people. I was. Yeah. And I bought Tai Lopez's course on a credit card. Well, the I and I and this I I took me a while to do it because what I did is I would watch the webinar, and then I would screenshot all of the testimonials that he was showing in the webinar.
These are all the options that they had, and they had to rate them as part of the questionnaire. When Sheldon looked at the data, he found that practically all the hikers saw drops in intrinsic motivation during the marathon hike. This isn't surprising. When you're walking 2650 miles across freezing terrain over 5 months, it's hard to genuinely enjoy every step. Sheldon was more interested in the form of extrinsic motivation the hocus turned to when their intrinsic motivation inevitably declined. By 2017, many scientists had begun to suspect that as with Catness studying for her exams, There were 3 discrete types of extrinsic motivation in addition to the purely intrinsic form. They fall on a spectrum the relative autonomy continuum or RAC. So going from less autonomous to more autonomous, we start off with, firstly, external motivation. I'm doing this because important people will like and respect me more if I do. People who highly rated this statement have high external motivation. Secondly, we have introjected motivation. I'm doing this because I'll feel guilty or bad about myself if I don't. People who highly rated this statement have high interjected motivation. Thirdly, we have identified motivation. I'm doing this because I truly value the goal it's helping me work towards. People who highly rated this statement have high identified motivation, And fourthly, we have intrinsic motivation. I'm doing this because I love the process as an end in itself. And people who highly rated this statement have high intrinsic motivation. We can plot these 4 forms on a spectrum from less to more autonomous. And in the supplementary PDF, there is a little diagram So this is kinda complicated, but I'm gonna try and explain it. So basically imagine a spectrum from less autonomous to more autonomous, and there's like a line with arrows on either end. Specifying less autonomous and more autonomous. And then along that spectrum, you've got 4 discrete areas. So on the less autonomous end, you have external motivation,
Percent of viewers to sign ups for that lead magnet. We want you to improve that metric and get it to 13%. Let's just say. Right? And so you may know what is your steady state lead magnet conversion from YouTube video. Yeah. And try and give them now a stretch goal of now that you're solely focused on this area, we'd like to see that 10% improved to 13%, which over a year that, you know, that could equal, you know, 100 of 1000 of newsletter sign ups. Absolutely. That's a really good point. What is the metric? Yeah. A a question I've been thinking about a lot with a lot of areas of our business is what is the metric that matters here? Mhmm. Because for example, for Lead magnet, stuff. And for the email list, we were thinking so we have, like, a weekly scorecard, which actually, I might bring up the laptop and just do a screen share so we can we can bring it up. But, so we have, like, a weekly scorecard where, based on the traction principles. Yep. We track all these metrics week on week. And one thing we don't really track yet, which we are now starting to, is like, how many emails how many email subs came from which lead magnet and which sources. Mhmm. We have all of those in, like, some combination of Google Analytics, Looker Studio, ConvertKit analytics. They're all over the all over the place, but just getting them all in one place is like the job for the next, like, week for the team. Yeah. And then UTM linking all these lead magnets because our social media people are also driving traffic to some of these lead magnets. Mhmm. Because one thing that we've thought about is that actually, I'm I'm curious to get your take on this. Someone who subscribes to Sunday Snippets, my email newsletter, versus someone who is an actual lead. I was speaking to, Eric Partaker, I think, you know, about this. And he was like, he his his view on this was that a lead as someone who's expressed explicit educational intent for a, in in the vertical of a product that you actually have. Yes. So for us, it's like if they sign up to our YouTube crash course or our grow your YouTube channel scorecard, you know, all that kind of
To the experience of being a nighttime productivity expert. And at the time, the stakes felt low, so I'd feel relaxed and mellow while reading. And to be fair, when I signed this book deal, the stakes were raised a little. A calm project, and again, that's CALM, can be almost anything creative that has a clear endpoint. You could take up photography, setting yourself the goal of taking a photo every day for a year. You could learn to code setting yourself the goal of creating a text based role playing game, you could develop the skill of quilting, setting yourself the goal of creating a gift for your mom's next birthday. And if you want to further supercharge the effects of your calm project, consider incorporating people into it. As we saw in chapter 3, when we undertake a task with friends or as part of our wider community, we harness the energy that comes from human connection. We thrive in environments where we can learn from one another, exchange ideas, and celebrate our successes together. If your calm project involves painting or drawing, you could join a local art class or meet up group where you can share your progress. If you're passionate about writing, you could become part of a writing group or attend workshops where you can grow together as writers. Whatever your project, when you build a community around your project, you harness the recharging power of people. I hope you enjoyed that little snippet of my brand new book. Feel good productivity. I had so much recording the audiobook in a studio in London, it was a lot of hard work, but quite a lot of fun. And so if you fancy listening to the entire book, it is available to purchase wherever audiobooks are sold. Thank you so much for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode of Deepdai.
Were likely to double their business in 5 years, and it's about 25% for low intuitive. Have there been no times for you where you where your intuition does kick in, or would you more often than not stick with the mind? I think usually if my intuition is saying something, I can generally find a way to rationalize that thing as well. Totally. Totally. So it's not it's not it's rarely an either or choice. Yeah. But that that's a brilliant level of awareness to see that your intuition is leading. And then the mind will often find reasons to back up. And it's a little bit like debating. Once you know that you're committed to putting something forward, you find reasons to say that I'm writing your role. Yeah. But I think the key is distinguishing between the intuitive part and the rational part and the heart part and the mind And when intuition is telling you to say something or to do something, like, I think you're really cute or pretty, in that example. And the mind says, don't do it. Like, don't put yourself out there. It's too risky. It's not worth it. But deep down, you know what it is that feels true and right for you. That the thing that is surely we're not saying that the thing that feels intuitive and right is always the direction that we should go. Like, the mind will often come up with totally reasonable objections to doing the thing. Yeah. Why would you do what doesn't feel right? To me, it feels very right to be very open about, like, my life and my finances and all this kind of stuff. Because it's like, helps people and inspire some people and makes some good videos and all this kind of stuff. And it feels like it vibes with one of my core values, which is authenticity and transparency and things. The other side of the coin, there is sort of as as the numbers get bigger, there's an increasingly, higher
